Alex V
1:03 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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DJH 1:19 Mon Nov 23
Good post.
I think I'm right that our first two set-pieces were taken short - with Carroll in the team that is just not playing to his strengths. There are no early balls coming into the box so there's no chance for him to win them. The concession to Carroll's strength in the air at the moment is straight balls played forward at head height, which I would argue are the least useful tactic - even if he manages to flick on a header to a team-mate, you're still a way from the goal with plenty to do.
What I would say to Carroll is that coming short isn't really helping us - he can hold up the ball well generally but it's slow possession that doesn't help a counter-attacking side who want to spring on the break. Lead the line, make sure you're in the box, play more as a poacher.
It is nonsense to say that we can't play well with Carroll imo. It just needs adaptation, which shouldn't be beyond the team.
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BetterthanKaka
12:27 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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If he is in the team on Sunday, I might stay and watch it in the pub.
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sidneyshitcunt
12:24 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Norwich Hammer I understand Carroll hasn't been playing well, but giving a Jellyfish a game instead is a bit harsh..
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Takashi Miike
11:14 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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he just doesn't fit a modern style of play. his lack of control, skill and mobility will always hold him back. yes, he's sometimes great in the air and will get on the end of the occasional cross but he's just not good enough and should be moved on asap
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Eerie Descent
11:14 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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I'm shocked Bilic started him with Sakho fit. I was certain he would go back to the winning formula we had.
Still, there were a few on here saying Carroll had to start against Spurs because they are shit in the air.
You have to laugh.
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Northern Sold
11:07 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Said from day one when we bought him that he's going to be a pile of festering overpaid cunt.... and not one thing he has done has made me change my mind... the sooner Allardyce comes in for him the better
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scott_d
10:15 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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I agree that Carroll starting up front hasn't worked that well but when Sakho was injured it was the obvious decision to start Carroll as he returned from fitness, especially after scoring the winner against Chelsea.
I would expect he needed a few games for Bilic to see how effective he is - ie not very.
I would like to think that now Sakho is fit and he's has a good look at Carroll, Bilic will revert back to Sakho up front along with Carroll on the bench.
It's possible Song may get a look in too as it's been 3 games without a win now and we need to beat West Brom.
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Eddie B
10:06 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Sakho up front on his todd, like when we won all those matches earlier this season. Remember?
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norwich hammer
9:56 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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He has lost his touch by the looks of it, the old Carroll would hold the ball well and give time for players to get into dangerous positions but looks like a pub player at the moment. I don't see him and Sahko working so Bilic needs to put him on the bench and give Jelivech a go as we need to stop this run sharpish.
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collyrob
9:42 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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He simply doesn't have the footballing brain to move with fast attacking players like payet lanzini and sakho.
We are a counter attacking side and he just doesn't suit the way we play.
Fair enough last 15 if we're chasing a goal, fuck on the big man and let him cause trouble in the box, but to start with him completely nullifies our attacks.
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Norflundon
9:38 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Djh
Although I agree with you about Payet you only need to look at a club like city with all their quality and how much they miss silva to realise how much we'll miss our best player
I don't agree with your views on Carroll against Everton we got shit loads of quality crosses in none of which he got anywhere near.
He's just a terrible footballer end of.......
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Private Dancer
9:02 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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DJH 1:19 Mon Nov 23
You may make a couple of decent points, but this theory that Carroll can only be good for us when the system suits him and other players are doing their jobs etc doesn't cut it for me.
What about all times he loses the ball cheaply, or holds it up for too long thus slowing our attacks down, and his lack of pace, that's owt to do with the system, that is just him not being very good at football. It's a real pity it hasn't worked out with him but I don't see how it will end well, he simply is no longer a capable top flight centre forward.
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cholo
8:28 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Pointless playing Carroll on his own up front especially if crosses aren't coming into the box from the flanks which are non existent, no coincidence that's how Carroll done the damage v Chelsea. It'll probably take a lot more tweaking of tactics and confidence building before Carroll is ready to make an impact, if ever, but he's not completely to blame as some would have us believe.
We should definitely revert to Sakho through the middle and while we are at it try starting zarate again, I know he's a frustrating player at times but he is capable of doing the business.
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Sydney_Iron
6:38 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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More urine if you please!
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normannomates
5:27 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Carroll simply isn't up to starting games...had so little game time for fair few yrs now..
I'm fine with him coming off the bench if needed..the bloke will never be 100% again.
Shame..but that's how it is.
But for the dough he's on I'd rather see him move on in January..No chance though
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Hugh Monteith
4:13 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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We don't have the variety to utilize his technique s
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Jakarta Jones
4:11 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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I was thinking the same thing regarding the accommodation of Carroll.
Didn't our 'slip' start last year when Carroll came back from injury?
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HairyHammer
4:09 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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The truth is Carroll is simply not that good at the moment and the rest around him are not much better, saw this coming a few games ago.
West Ham have lost their snap and fizz, and it may be down to the sluggish style or the squad not being as good as we thought but Bilic must get his finger out and do something, be it with style of play or change of players, playing players out of position will not help anything either.
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Hugh Monteith
3:16 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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We dont accomodate Andy particularly well
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ChesterRd
2:06 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Bilic has been forced to start the donkey with Sakho out. Now Sakho has got a game under his belt he should start in the central role, where he will link up far better with Lanzini and Song. Carroll's ability as a footballer was summed up at the end of the game when Sakho slotted the ball through to him and he completely lost control of it.
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DJH
1:19 Mon Nov 23
Re: Why have we abandoned a successful formation and tactic to accommodate Carroll?
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Had Payet signed for West Brom rather than West Ham then there is every chance they would be top 6 because for me that is the influence he has had on the team.
For me without him we are just a mid-table side in transition in footballing style just as likely to be looking down as well as up during the course of the season.
So to suggest that Carroll has somewhat disrupted something good is far too simplistic and ignores the fact that opponents sooner or later would set out to stop us playing the way that has been successful even if it means crippling Payet like Everton did, so we need to be able to look at other means of attacking during a season if only not to be too predictable.
The most disappointing thing for me today is that I think Carroll would have caused their defence no end of problems had we been able to get some decent crosses in but whether intentionally or forced to by Spurs pressure we overplayed far too much and they crowded us out.
Today for me Carroll's ineffectiveness was much more about what those behind him weren't doing whilst we conceding 4 goals yet it seems Carroll is carrying the can in a game where his strength is a weakness in Spurs defending and not once outside a set piece do I recall him being given the opportunity to show that.
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